A recent debate concerning Ohio’s Senate Bill 5 featured two articulate experts sharply defining two opposing points of view. The video of the debate is copied below.
The question of the debate is whether SB5 should be sustained, as outlined in the statewide referendum, Issue 2, on the November ballot. Republican State Senator Keith Faber argued “Yes,” saying it provides a “reasonable reform” that will help the state and local governments. Innovation Ohio spokesperson, Dale Butland, argued, “No,” saying that SB5 is politically motivated, unnecessary, and is “wildly extremist.”
Interestingly, as the debate developed, Senator Faber, urging “Yes” to maintain SB5, quoted Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt to support his view, and Mr. Butland, urging “No,” quoted retired Republican Governor Voinovich to support his view.
The opening statements of the two speakers (transcript shown below) outlined the themes of the debate. Later in the debate Sen. Faber claimed that Columbus lost $40 million to pension pick-ups that SB5 would eliminate and that other communities also lost significant money. Mr. Butland’s retort was that much of the pension pick-ups go to school administrators who are not part of a union. He failed to address the $40 million claim, however.
Senator Faber: We Need Reasonable Reform To Turn Ohio Around. Vote “Yes.”
It was not long ago, just a few decades, that Ohio had more than 20 congressional districts. We just finished the redistricting process to go from 18 congressional districts to 16, and I think that summarizes probably more than any other statistic exactly what is happened in Ohio in the last few decades in relation to the rest of the country. One of the messages that is clear is that if we keep doing what we are doing and expect different results, then shame on us.
If we keep doing more of the same, business as usual, we will end up in ten years probably redistricting not for 16 congressional districts, but for 14. And Ohio’s place in the rest of the country will continue to be diminished. And that’s largely because of jobs and the state of Ohio’s economy. A major component, a major component, of turning that around is reforming the way Ohio and our local governments do business.
Senate Bill 5 is all about reasonable reform. Senate Bill 5 reforms are reasonable.
- It is not unreasonable to ask government workers to pay 15% of the cost of their health care. It is not unreasonable to ask government workers to pay10% towards their very generous, guaranteed pensions.
- It is not unreasonable to ask government workers to have their performance be a bigger dictator on their compensation than just how long they’ve sat in chairs.
The other thing, Senate Bill 5 is necessary. The reality is, we are out of money. As state and local governments, we are out of money. We can’t keep affording to pay for generous benefits for government workers that far exceed those of the private sector.
Senate Bill 5’s probably most important components deal with reclaiming our schools. It is important that in education we change the dynamic to improve the quality of education. This is an area where Barack Obama and conservative Keith Faber agree. We need to move towards performance based compensation and merit in the determination of the success of our public education.
Finally, Senate Bill 5, Issue 2, is all about protecting the taxpayers. It’s all about helping to insure that taxpayers have a seat at the table. For far too long, the people sitting at the table have been the unions, their union bosses and often the politicians the unions helped elect with their contributions. Taxpayers were left out. It’s time for us to level that playing field. It’s time for us to put taxpayers back at the table and not award government employee contracts with wages and benefits that taxpayers simply can’t afford. And what that’s led to is an overall reduction in the number of government employees. We’ve seen that in your community and we are seeing that all around Ohio.
Ultimately, I’m going to ask you for a “Yes” vote on Issue 2, and as we go through this debate I will ask you to try and separate the difference betwwen the facts from the hype and hyperbole. Let’s get to the facts
Mr. Butland rejected Sen. Faber’s argument saying, “None of these claims are true.” He tied SB5 into an overall Ohio Republican tax policy — benefiting the wealthy and needlessly maintaining costly tax loopholes — saying that the Republican tax policy has caused the crisis in state funding to local communities and schools and it is not true that overly generous wages and benefits to government employees should be blamed. Later in the debate, Butland developed the idea that the 1983 collective bargaining law benefited the state and resulted in fewer strikes by public workers. He quoted Republican George Voinovich’s comments defending and praising the 1983 legislation.
Dale Butland: SB5 Is Wildly Extremist, Political. Don’t Be Fooled. Vote “No”
Let me be very concise. Senate Bill 5 will hurt us all. It is unfair. It is unsafe. And, it is wildly extremist.
Senator Faber just told you that we need Senate Bill 5 because our state, our schools and local governments are out of money which he blames on overly generous worker wages and benefits. Senator Faber also told you that Senate Bill 5 won’t destroy collective bargaining, and if he didn’t tell you that in his opening, he will tell you that. He want us to believe it is only about a few reasonable reforms like asking public workers pay 10% of their pensions and 15% health insurance premiums.
Don’t let Sen Faber fool you. None of these claims is true. In Ohio, 94% of all public workers already pay the 10% of the pensions called for by Senate Bill 5. The 6%, who pay less than that 10%, don’t do so at their own request but at the request of their employers who sometimes find picking up some of that pension to be cheaper for them than raising wages. Roughly 90% of public workers contribute to health insurance. All state employees already pay the 15% for health insurance demanded by Senate Bill 5.
What about wages? Senator Faber didn’t tell you that over 90% of all contracts bargained this year contained a freeze on wages.
Even more to the point, schools and local government aren’t struggling because public workers have refused to sacrifice but because Governor Kasich and his allies, like Senator Faber, refused to close any of the $7 billion in tax loopholes we have on the books, and also refused to ask the wealthy Ohioans to make any sacrifices at all. Instead they chose to cut $ 3 billion from schools and instead cut local government by 50%. Here in Fairfield you lost $ 2.8 million.
As for bargaining, let’s get real. Under stage bill 5, collective bargaining would be gutted, and would exist in name only. It takes away the right to strike. It removes binding arbitration for safety forces who we aren’t allow to strike anyway. In cases where agreement can’t be reached it lets management to simply impose a its own contract offer, thereby removing any incentive to argue in good faith in the first place.
Public worker aren’t the only victims. It will will hurt you and your familes too. Let me close — If none of senator Faber’s works are true, why on earth would Governor Kasich impose such a law? Three words: power, politics and payback. And I’ll look forward to expanding on that in the debate ahead.
The Senate Bill 5 Debate starts at about the 1:33:00 mark
