From The Vaults

Tuesday, October 9, Kettering City Council Will Debate Resolution To Urge “NO” Vote For Issue 28 & Issue 29

Kettering citizens this election will decide whether, or not, to approve two changes to the Kettering City Charter. Issue 28, if approved, will establish term limits for the Kettering mayor and Kettering Council members and Issue 29 will reduce the pay of the mayor and council members by 50%.

Tomorrow, Tuesday, October 9, the Kettering City Council will vote on a resolution urging Kettering citizens to vote “NO” on both Issue 28 and Issue 29. The meeting starts at 7:30 PM and will be held at the City Building at 3600 Shroyer Rd.

One council member, Rob Scott, is on record as urging a “Yes” vote. Mr. Scott, who initiated the Dayton Tea Party, is now the chair of the Montgomery County Republican Party.   Another council member, Ashley Webb, according to a Terry Morris article in the Dayton Daily News, “opposes cutting the mayor’s pay and limiting consecutive terms in that office, but not for council.” This resolution should inspire an interesting debate at the council, and I am planning on attending the meeting.

Previously I wrote a post that asked, Are Kettering’s Mayor And City Council Members Paid Too Much?”, and pointed out that Kettering has over 56,000 citizens and when the salary per citizen is calculated, the salary for Kettering’s mayor and council members is about in the middle of the amounts paid to other area mayors and council members.

I spoke briefly with Chuck Horn, former Kettering mayor, who is endorsing both Issue 28 and Issue 29. He told me that when he was mayor in 1978, he earned $6000.  According to, the rate of inflation from 1978 to 2012 is 262.66%. The $6000 Mr. Horn earned in 1978 today is worth $21,756, so the $23,500 earned by the current Kettering mayor seems to be consistent with past amounts paid to the Kettering mayor.

Mr. Horn served in the Ohio Senate 1985-2000. He voted to approve term limits and was term limited in 2000. I asked if he felt that term limits had caused an improvement in the State Assembly and he said, “Probably not.”  He added, however, that he felt at the local government level terms limits would make an improvement.

Both issues are the result of petitions initiated by a group called “Citizens For A Better Kettering,” whose web-site, urges a “Yes” vote saying, “Both Issues Have Been Endorsed by Former Mayors Chuck Horn, Dick Hartmann and Current Councilman Rob Scott.”  From the web-site:

Issue 28: Term Limits

Council has become a rubber stamp with little innovation. Since February 2011 they’ve cast “Aye” votes on every proposed ordinance (1,689 times) without a single “Nay” vote.

Term Limits encourages new candidates to run for office, and assures a periodic infusion of new ideas. Our proposed Term Limits are similar to what Beavercreek, Fairborn, and the Ohio Legislature have used for years.

Issue 29: Pay Reform

Council has often voted themselves annual pay raises during their sitting terms. Council’s budget for salaries is over twice the average of other Dayton suburbs and much higher than Springfield, Beavercreek, Huber Heights, Oakwood, etc.
Our proposal would reset salaries to $8,000/year for city council and $12,000/year for mayor and require public disclosure of future increases before they are voted into law.

Times are tough. Good Stewardship of tax dollars should start with City Council. Our proposed Charter Amendments will bring Council and Mayoral pay back into alignment with neighboring cities, and encourage new leaders to run for election.


7 comments to Tuesday, October 9, Kettering City Council Will Debate Resolution To Urge “NO” Vote For Issue 28 & Issue 29

  • Charles P.Shanesy,III

    I feel strongly this would de vitalize our Kettering community/ This would be an avenue for candidates to use city council positions as as “stepping stone” to enhance their careers with their own personal agenda / Nothing would get done or finished/ It takes at least 1 or 2 years to figure out what the heck is going on in the City.
    To many important issues that vitalize our city of Kettering for the in experienced council man / FDR ran 4 terms, why not let the people decide with their vote / Run 4 times / voted for 4 terms total / Let the peiople decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Charles P.Shanesy,III
    Community Activist for Oak Creek (of Kettering)

  • Charles P.Shanesy,III

    As far as issues 28 and 29 go for the City of Kettering, I feel strongly that limited terms in office for City Council would be disaster to our Kettering community/ Grass root organizations such as the tea party have the right idea but the wrong initiative / I feel that it is a way of undermining the current system to use the council position as a “stepping stone” to achieve higher avenues of government /
    It takes at least one or two years in the position to figure out what is going on in the city , let alone attempting to perform the job itself and meet the people of Kettering /
    I would rather have a person who has run un opposed for three or four terms who has performed a studious and good job for the community , is this not what voting is for? Does this not limit our right to vote for the candidate of choice? “Oh, he ran for two terms , he has to sit out the next four years before going back on the ballot again” , In the mean time, we have to choose from a candidate or candidates we don’t care for when we had one in office who we liked and who did a great job for two terms.This really limits our choices for voting.
    As far as the Mayor and the City Council goes, do people really understand the hours of Community service they spend as a member ? 28 cents per resident does not sound that bad for the a great community like Kettering / So a what what other cities charge their residents / kettering is well run and I know our Council works endless hours to please its residents/
    Hopefully, the people of kettering will make the right choice and vote no on these two issues.


  • Ashley Webb


    Terry had to print a correction in the Saturday paper that week that stated that the article should have said that Council Member Ashley Webb has not taken a position on the Charter Amendments. He actually attributed Mayor Patterson’s quote to me in the article you are referencing.


  • charles p shanesyiii

    Mike, How come you will not print my comment! I revised a second time and you still did not print it! however you did print Ashley Webbs comment concerning the Charter Amendments/ Please respond by e/mail

  • Mike Bock

    Charles, Thanks for your comments. I agree with your conclusions. And I’m sorry for the delay in posting your comments. I have a spam filter that hold back comments until I approve them — unless the comments are from sources that I’ve previously approved. The spam filter did not recognize you as a previously approved commentator, but did recognize Ashley Webb. I failed to check my web-site last night and didn’t notice your comments until this morning.

    Ashley, thanks for clearing up the mistake about your quotes in the DDN, and I apologize for not contacting you directly about the matter, but I had no reason to suppose that the DDN was inaccurate.

  • Ashley Webb

    Mike, No problem – very few people read the correction I’m sure.

  • charles p shanesyiii

    Thanks Mike!

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